alltecFEMINISM IS TO FEMALE AS RACISM IS TO RACECasella di testo: ANY THING WHICH HAPPENING IN THIS WORLD IS OUR BUSINESS

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Casella di testo: Feminist myths and tricks frequently used to disrupt discussion --------------------------------------------------------------- [Posted in alt.mens-rights and soc.men]   The purpose of this FAQ is to briefly _identify_ prominent Feminist myths and tricks that are frequently used to disrupt good discussions, and by doing so, to give alt.mens-rights the tools to move onto better discussion; to _focus_ instead of just endlessly defending against the same old anti-male slander.   The purpose is not to argue or to prove anything to anybody. If you're interested in more substantive material, I suggest starting with the WWW page (Not affiliated with this FAQ or with me) http://www.vix.com/men/index.html   After some myths I include concise rebuttals and/or pointers to further information. Don't be misled: this is not an effort to fully explore and rebut the Feminist nonsense in question. It is a short _reminder_ of what's wrong with that particular Feminist lie, nothing more.   Feminist generally follow up this FAQ with attacks, regardless that it's not directed to them nor intended to substantively prove anything. To them, everything is a move in their "men bad, women good" game. They don't want us to identify and name their lies. And that's a good reason to do it.   I urge you not allow these myths to derail discussion of other issues, even other related issues. If they have not got a clue yet, you can bet they won't get a clue from anything you say. Instead, I suggest simply cutting-and-pasting from this file, as some have done.   The myths below have had more than a fair hearing -- they have had billions of hearings, here and almost everywhere else on the planet. We in alt.mens-rights have heard and debunked these myths literally hundreds of times. I strongly suggest we refuse to re-discuss them endlessly. These little snippets of Feminist hatred have had their chance already. You don't owe them another one.   I feel that any self-respecting people after having addressed the myths _once_ should not have tolerated them any further. We don't need to be complicit in our own defamation.           Myth:   Men (or white males) have it great. Men are well                 provided-for by society.           False. On _this_ planet, men are second class citizens in many         ways. This is the most cancerous myth of all and those who         proselytize it are quite beyond civilized discussion.           Trick:  The preponderance of male legislators (male columnists,                 etc.) demonstrates male power.           False and sexist. This is known as "The Frontman Fallacy":         looking at what _sex_ influential people are instead of looking         at _what they actually do_. Most legislators, male and female,         show favoritism to women's interests. Female circumcision is         committed almost entirely by women, yet no-one says female         circumcision demonstrates female power.           Trick:  Social institutions not specifically dedicated to women                 are therefore specifically dedicated to men. "Males have                 _everything_ else in their favor."           False. It seems that for every issue, Feminists claim that all         _other_ issues except the one in question are working in men's         favor, and never acknowledge that they say this about every         issue!           Trick:  Well, in the past and in faraway places, males had it so                 good and women were treated horribly.           Not credible. This trick conveniently places the assertion far         enough away that you can't easily check it, but where the         Feminist propaganda machine can still churn out horror stories         to fit its agenda.           Myth:   Domestic violence is committed primarily by men against                 women.           False. National studies, such as Steinmetz, such as Straus &         Gelles, and such as McNeely, have repeatedly shown the rates         men->women and women->men to be almost exactly equal. See         http://www.vix.com/pub/men/domestic-index.html           Myth:   We have to admit domestic violence _is_ committed by                 women, but it's just because they were abused, so it's                 still the man's fault.           False again! Researchers such as Coromae Mann have concluded "I         would not define these women as battered women, I would say they         are battering women".           Myth:   The single largest cause of injury to a woman in the                 U.S. is domestic violence.           False. And considering the millions of injuries in the US from         other sources, numerically ridiculous.           Myth:   Women earn $0.XX per man's $1.00 for the same work.                 (The $0.XX claimed varies wildly)           False. This myth refuses to take into account important         considerations such as actual hours worked (!), training, job         commitment, etc.           Myth:   Men control more money than women.           False. Men work for and earn more money, but women control more         than 65% of US personal wealth, and spend 4 consumer dollars for         every consumer dollar that men spend.           Myth:   Women's standard of living falls after divorce while                 men's rises.           False. This myth is based on an "advocacy" study by Lenore         Weitzmann that has been long debunked, for use of         unrepresentative samples, misleading arithmetic, insistence on         counting payments from the ex-husband to the ex-wife as if he         still possessed the money, and so forth. Weitzmann openly broke         the American Sociological Association's Code Of Ethics but has         yet to be disciplined for it.           Trick: "Feminist" and "woman" are interchangeable terms. The                 opposite of "Feminists" is "men". Feminist interests and                 women's interests are interchangeable terms.           False and absurd. Our opinion of all women could never be so         low.           Trick:  I'm a male and I agree with the Feminists that                 [particular Feminist lie]           Not impressed. You're far from the first man to sell out their         own. You may believe that as what you call a "male" you're in         the perfect position to backstab men's rights, but we've heard         it all before.           Myth:   Choice for men is about men trying to evade parental                 responsibilities.           False and sexist. In the US, choice for men would give men only         the rights women have had since Roe v Wade, nothing more. It         would not let the man compel the woman to abort. See         http://www.nas.com/c4m           Trick:  People who oppose Feminists are "threatened by strong                 women"           It is manipulative and arrogant to imply that the only flaw         feminists could possibly have is to be "too strong".           Trick:  Feminists just want equality. Feminism is about people.           The anti-male nature of Feminists is so obvious, so huge, so         outrageous, that to discuss this myth would only dignify it         undeservedly. And we've all noticed that purveyors of this trick         don't object when the "Why should Feminism do anything for men"         trick is used.           Trick:  Why should Feminism do anything for men? Why don't men                 form their own groups instead of demanding that Feminism                 behave itself?           We do, and obviously we lack the political clout of Feminism.         But given Feminism's constant use of appeal to pity, it is         enormously hypocritical to now say "Who cares about you, we got         ours!" And we've all noticed that purveyors of this trick don't         object when the "Feminism is about people" trick is used.           Myth:   Differences in the skills and behaviour of men and women                 are all caused by socialisation. Thus in principle all                 women can do most jobs as well as all men.           There is an enormous middle ground between biological         determinism and cultural determinism. Both extremes are         ridiculous. We should not accept the socialization-causes-it-all         theory as "the alternative" to biological determinism.           Trick:  Women have it worse because violence against women is                 increasing at a faster rate than violence against men.           This is the Fallacy of Confounding the Derivative with the         Function. Men have it much worse, as evinced by the two major         U.S. Department of Justice crime measures. The actual         victimization rates for women are still much lower than those of         men.           Trick:  You can't criticize Feminism because no statement you                 make is true of _all_ Feminists.           This trick tries to block discussion by making it impossible to         express your thought. The writer simply specifies that by         "Feminism", he means mainstream Feminism, misandry. Another         approach is to qualify the term: "Gender Feminism",         "Biofeminism", or "Radical Feminism". And if Feminism really was         so random, by the same token you wouldn't be able say anything         positive about it.           Trick:  Well _I_ don't approve of [some particular Feminist                 evil]. Only some rare radical Feminists do. Maybe.           If you genuinely don't, then we weren't criticizing _you_. But         generally the statement is part of the old good cop / bad cop         routine. Do you ever actually criticize the misandrists? Ever         advance new arguments against Feminist policies or actions? Ever         spread the word about the latest Feminist outrage? Or do you         just tell _us_ to stop holding Feminism accountable?           Trick:  There is no Feminist agenda. <sarcasm> I must have been                 away when the agenda was handed out </sarcasm>           That tactic has become a favorite one to deflect criticism about         the activities being conducted on their behalf. Movements don't         exist without agendas, nor can they be effective without a         fairly high degree of uniformity among their supporters.           Trick:  I don't speak for Feminism, just for myself. I'm not                 accountable for Feminism. Feminism is not accountable                 for me.           Fair enough if it came from a real non-Feminist. But if you have         argued in defense or support of Feminism, you have shown your         colors and we won't forget it for your convenience. It's also         fair to hold Feminism accountable for you if other Feminists         refrain from significantly criticizing you.           Trick:  You're a misogynist!           Misogyny has a precise meaning: Hatred of women _as a class_.         Those who use the term irresponsibly are both unfairly         pretending there's much more misogyny than there really is and         also demonizing people. If someone calls you a misogynist just         because you are in conflict with an individual woman or you         don't support special privileges for women, they owe you a huge         apology. (But good luck getting it)           Trick:  No man can know how awful childbirth is.           False. We have wives, sisters, mothers, female friends, and so         forth, and we have a pretty good idea of what is and is not         involved. We're not about to be bluffed into giving more         sympathy than is merited or bullied into playing dumb.           Trick:  You're just as bad as the feminists. They hate men, you                 hate feminists.           Come off it. Anyone who can't see the difference between hating         a birth-group (men) and hating a hate-group back (feminists)         needs to pull their head out.           Trick:  Anyone who opposes Feminism is a reactionary who wants                 to go "back to the past". Feminism is "progress".           Anti-feminists are not necessarily traditionalists. The author         is a proud anti-feminist and is not a traditionalist. And not         everyone agrees that Feminism is "progress". On the contrary,         most here think Feminism has been a disaster.           Trick:  Why is SO IMPORTANT to you to argue about [some         particular gender issue]?           You should be asking this of Feminists, not of Antifeminists.         The Feminists invented the "Which sex has it worse?" issue with         all its variations and invented countless lies about it. It was         only when the lies were thrown in our face over and over that we         realized we had to defend men. Why attack Antifeminists for         defending men, and say nothing to Feminists for attacking men in         the first place?           Trick:  Men are responsible for wars. This justifies many sorts                 of manbashing, including the all-male draft.           You mean, men _are sent_ to war. Surely sending a birth group to         their deaths does not justify further discrimination against         that group.           Trick:  You're not a woman so you could never understand.           And when's the last time you told a female Feminist she could         never hope to understand because she's not a man? And so the         only people who can comment on gender issues are people who have         had sex change operations?   Suggested answers for more general tactics, so that you don't have to knock yourself out phrasing a new answer every time they use the old tactic:   Suggested response to obvious Feminist lies:       Thank you for demonstrating once again that Feminists will say     anything and listen to nothing.   Suggested response to Feminist back-pedalling:       As usual, the Feminist response to being caught at something stinky     is to simply crank out more lies and disingenuity.   Suggested response to Feminists disputing common sense:       Thank you for another example of how Feminists need to destroy     common sense.   Suggested response when Feminists indicate they just don't care about fairness:       Thank you for demonstrating once again the moral bankruptcy of     Feminism.   Suggested response when a Feminist relates suspicious anecdotal "evidence":       "On the Internet, no-one knows your tales are lies" -- or so you     Feminists seem to think.   If you wish to claim that these myths are in fact true, you're too late. You've had your hearing and you convinced me and others that purveyors of these myths will never be honest or reasonable.